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Nouvelle Voie à Suivre de l'Archevêque Schneider Condamné par le Pape Paul VI

 
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Sean Johnson


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MessagePosté le: Ven 8 Avr - 03:56 (2016)    Sujet du message: Nouvelle Voie à Suivre de l'Archevêque Schneider Condamné par le Pape Paul VI Répondre en citant

Certain Conciliar Texts Can Be Objects of Discussion With the SSPX, According to the Vatican
By Marie Malzac, April 7, 2016.

Days after the meeting between Pope Francis and the superior of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X (SSPX), Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Ecclesia Dei Commission, indicated that Vatican II documents (should) be welcomed according to the required degree of adherence. The acceptance of the texts on relations with other religions [Nostra Aetate] does not constitute a prerequisite for juridical recognition of the Lefebvrist society and certain questions will be able to remain objects of discussion and clarification, he explained to La Croix. 

The meeting, on April 1, between Pope Francis and Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the Lefebvrist line, falls within the context of the SSPX progression towards full reconciliation, which will come with canonical recognition of the institute, which was explained to La Croix by Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of the Ecclesia Dei Commission, which is in charge of relations with Tradition inside of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. 

At this moment, it is especially important to work towards creating a climate of trust ... to overcome the hardness of distrust, which is understandable after so many years of distance and fracture, continued Archbishop Pozzo, assuring he wants to dispel it in order to rediscover the reasons for unity and for promoting the integrity of the Catholic faith and the Tradition of the Church.

Different degrees of adherence are required 

For the person in charge of discussions with the SSPX, it is fitting to recall the three essential points which make a person Catholic: adherence to the profession of faith, the bond of the sacraments and hierarchical communion with the pope.” This is what the Doctrinal Declaration will contain, which will be submitted to the adherence of the SSPX at the appropriate time. 

In what concerns the Second Vatican Council, the course taken in the meetings of the last years has led to an important clarification: the Second Vatican Council can be sufficiently understood only within the context of the entire Tradition of the Church and its constant magisterium, Archbishop Pozzo specified. 

The affirmations of truths of faith and of sure Catholic doctrine contained in the Second Vatican Council documents must be welcomed according to the degree of required adherence, the Italian bishop continued, who repeats the distinction between dogma and certain decrees or declarations containing directives for pastoral action, orientations and suggestions, or exhortations of a practical-pastoral character, as is notably the case with Nostra Aetate, in its opening to dialogue with non-Christian religions. 

Not an obstacle for canonical recognition 

These will constitute and be part of, after canonical recognition, a subject of discussion and further deepening, in view towards a greater precision, in order to avoid misunderstandings or equivocations which, as we know, have become widespread in the present ecclesiastical world. 

The difficulties raised by the SSPX regarding questions of Church-State relations and religious liberty, the practice of ecumenism and dialogue with non-Christian religions, certain aspects of liturgical reform and their concrete application, remain objects of discussion and clarification, Archbishop Pozzo added, but do not constitute an obstacle to the SSPX canonical and juridical recognition. 

The SSPX is asked to accept that the magisterium of the Church is the only one to whom is confided the deposit of the faith to be guarded, defended and interpreted. I believe this clarification can constitute a fixed point for the SSPX.

(Marie Malzac, La Croix, April 7, 2016; our [Cathinfo?] translation; underlining added.)




Mon Commentaire:


It is not clear to me how Bishop Schneider's "new way forward" (i.e., To get the SSPX to sign on the dotted line by pretending that some conciliar documents are more authoritative and binding than others) has any basis in the council itself:

As far as I know, this is not stated anywhere in the actual documents;

Additionally, this novel contrivance is explicitly contradicted by the Apostolic Brief "In Spiritu Sancto" which was read at the official closing of the council on December 8, 1965 by Archbishop Felici (Secretary General of the Council), on the authority of Paul VI:

"At last all which regards the holy ecumenical council has, with the help of God, been accomplished and all the constitutions, decrees, declarations and votes have been approved by the deliberation of the synod and promulgated by us. Therefore we decided to close for all intents and purposes, with our apostolic authority, this same ecumenical council called by our predecessor, Pope John XXIII, which opened October 11, 1962, and which was continued by us after his death.

We decided moreover that all that has been established synodally is to be religiously observed by all the faithful, for the glory of God and the dignity of the Church and for the tranquillity and peace of all men. We have approved and established these things, decreeing that the present letters are and remain stable and valid, and are to have legal effectiveness, so that they be disseminated and obtain full and complete effect, and so that they may be fully convalidated by those whom they concern or may concern now and in the future; and so that, as it be judged and described, all efforts contrary to these things by whomever or whatever authority, knowingly or in ignorance be invalid and worthless from now on.

Given in Rome at St. Peter's, under the [seal of the] ring of the fisherman, Dec. 8, on the feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the year 1965, the third year of our pontificate."
Second Vatican Council II Closing Speech 

How then can Bishop Schneider's "some docs are binding, some aren't" scheme skirt this quasi-anathema which closed Vatican II?

According to this declaration, all the documents are binding, and all efforts to say otherwise condemned.

Now, you and I as traditional Catholics know that none of Vatican II is binding (except to the extent that certain passages may have been made binding by earlier decrees), but to remain consistent with the stated will of Paul VI, the pretended new distinction between binding documents and non-binding documents is certainly fallacious.

And if such a fallacious contrivance has been engineered to facilitate the "reconciliation" of the SSPX, what does it say about the intention of these dishonest conciliarists?

Let us recall what Archbishop Lefebvre said on that subject:


He said:

"But, then, when we found out their deeper intentions in the meetings, the discussions on the Protocol, and the Protocol itself, I realized that nothing had changed.We were faced with a brick wall.They had hoped to put an end to Tradition.This is, indeed, the position of Rome, of the Pope, of Cardinal Ratzinger, of Cardinal Mayer, of Cardinal Casaroli....All these people hold desperately to the Council, to this “new Pentecost,” to the reform of the Church.They do not want to depart from it."
http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Episcopal-Consecration.htm 

And yet Bishop Fellay has the effrontery to tell us in a recent interview:

"...it is clear that Pope Francis wants to let us live and survive."
Interview with Bp. Bernard Fellay - District of the USA 

Indeed?


But the same Bishop Fellay told us only a few years prior that "on the doctrinal level we are still at the point where we started out in the 1970s," and that "Archbishop Lefebvre's analysis remains the guiding principle"
http://sspx.org/en/publications/letters/april-2013-superior-generals-letter…  


And this, despite yet another contradiction, in which Bishop Fellay had told the SSPX only one year prior to this (in Cor Unum) that there had been such improvements in Rome that "it demands of us a new position in relation to the official Church."
https://gloria.tv/article/FL2xAWSo1Xv 

Meanwhile Francis crushed the semi-traditionalist/semi-conciliar Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, but according to the latest party line in Menzingen, wants the (allegedly) fully traditional SSPX to thrive?

What kind of madness is this?

"Ah, you will say, "This is not the same Rome. Things have changed. Francis wishes us well!"

Against these suggestions of benevolent intent in Rome, Archbishop Lefebvre said:

"For a while I thought something had changed in himbut I have to acknowledge that all he did was with the intention to suppress the group that we were forming and to bring us back to the Council. It would be a mistake to impute only to Cardinal Decourtray and to the French Bishops this will; it is the position of Rome. The only difference is that the Vatican has more facilities to grant things to attract the traditionalists and, then later, destroy them and bring them back to the Council. It is just a question of Roman diplomacy."
http://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Archbishop_Lefebvre_and_the_Vatican/ Part_II/1988-11.htm 

Again:

"And why, Archbishop, have you stopped these discussions which seemed to have had a certain degree of success?" Well, precisely because, at the same time that I gave my signature to the Protocol, the envoy of Cardinal Ratzinger gave me a note in which I was asked to beg pardon for my errors. But if I am in error, if I teach error, it is clear that I must be brought back to the truth in the minds of those who sent me this note to sign. "That I might recognize my errors" means that, if you recognize your errors we will help you to return to the truth. (What is this truth for them if not the truth of Vatican II, the truth of the Conciliar Church?) Consequently, it is clear that the only truth that exists today for the Vatican is the conciliar truth, the spirit of the Council, the spirit of Assisi. That is the truth of today. But we will have nothing to do with this for anything in the world! 

"That is why, taking into account the strong will of the present Roman authorities to reduce Tradition to naught, to gather the world to the spirit of Vatican II and the spirit of Assisi, we have preferred to withdraw ourselves and to say that we could not continue. It was not possible. We would have evidently been under the authority of Cardinal Ratzinger, President of the Roman Commission, which would have directed us; we were putting ourselves into his hands, and consequently putting ourselves into the hands of those who wish to draw us into the spirit of the Council and the spirit of Assisi. This was simply not possible."
SSPXAsia.com:On the Occasion of the Episcopal Consecrations


The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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"I have passed on that which I have received." -Archbishop Lefebvre


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MessagePosté le: Ven 8 Avr - 09:43 (2016)    Sujet du message: Certains textes conciliaires peuvent être objet de « discussion » avec la FSSPX, selon le Vatican Répondre en citant

Certains textes conciliaires peuvent être objet de « discussion » avec la FSSPX, selon le Vatican



Marie Malzac, le 07/04/2016 à 15h43 - Texte en français voir La Croix

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MessagePosté le: Ven 8 Avr - 13:14 (2016)    Sujet du message: Nouvelle Voie à Suivre de l'Archevêque Schneider Condamné par le Pape Paul VI Répondre en citant

Contre Msgr. Schneider:


"We decided moreover that all that has been established synodally is to be religiously observed by all the faithful, for the glory of God and the dignity of the Church and for the tranquillity and peace of all men. We have approved and established these things, decreeing that the present letters are and remain stable and valid, and are to have legal effectiveness, so that they be disseminated and obtain full and complete effect, and so that they may be fully convalidated by those whom they concern or may concern now and in the future; and so that, as it be judged and described, all efforts contrary to these things by whomever or whatever authority, knowingly or in ignorance be invalid and worthless from now on."


http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6closin.htm 




Google Traduction:
«Nous avons décidé en outre que tout ce qui a été mis en place synodally doit être religieusement observé par tous les fidèles, pour la gloire de Dieu et la dignité de l'Eglise et pour la tranquillité et la paix de tous les hommes. Nous avons approuvé et établi ces choses, décrétant que les présentes lettres sont et restent stables et valides, et doivent avoir une efficacité juridique, de sorte qu'ils soient diffusés et d'obtenir plein et entier effet, et afin qu'ils puissent être pleinement convalidé par ceux qu'ils concernent ou peuvent concerner maintenant et dans l'avenir, et que, comme il sera jugé et décrit, tous les efforts contraires à ces choses par quiconque ou quoi que l'autorité, sciemment ou dans l'ignorance invalide et sans valeur à partir de maintenant ".
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MessagePosté le: Ven 8 Avr - 13:41 (2016)    Sujet du message: Nouvelle Voie à Suivre de l'Archevêque Schneider Condamné par le Pape Paul VI Répondre en citant

L'article en français pour les francophones qui viennent sur ce site :
http://www.la-croix.com/Urbi-et-Orbi/Vatican/Certains-textes-conciliaires-p…

Certains textes conciliaires peuvent être objet de « discussion » avec la FSSPX, selon le Vatican
Marie Malzac, le 07/04/2016 à 15h43

Quelques jours après la rencontre entre le pape François et le supérieur de la Fraternité sacerdotale Saint-Pie-X (FSSPX), Mgr Guido Pozzo secrétaire de la commission Ecclesia Dei, a indiqué qur les « documents du Concile Vatican II (devaient) être accueillis selon le degré d’adhésion requis ».

L’acceptation des textes sur les relations avec les autres religions ne constitue pas un pré-requis pour la reconnaissance juridique de la société lefebvriste et certaines questions pourront demeurer « objets de discussion et de clarification », a-t-il précisé à La Croix.

Mgr Guido POZZO, secrétaire de la Commission Ecclesia Dei, ici à Rome en 2009, est le responsable des discussions avec les lefebvristes. / Emanuela DE MEO/CPP/CIRIC

La rencontre, le 1er avril, entre le pape François et Mgr Bernard Fellay, chef de file des lefebvristes, s’inscrit « dans le contexte du cheminement de la FSSPX vers la pleine réconciliation, qui adviendra avec la reconnaissance canonique de l’Institut », a indiqué à La Croix Mgr Guido Pozzo, secrétaire de la commission Ecclesia Dei, qui s’occupe des relations avec la Tradition au sein de la Congrégation pour la doctrine de la foi.

« En ce moment, il est surtout important de contribuer à créer un climat de confiance (…) pour dépasser les raidissements et la méfiance, qui peuvent être compréhensibles après tant d’années de distance et de fracture », poursuit Mgr Pozzo, assurant vouloir les « dissiper » pour retrouver « les raisons de l’unité et de la promotion de l’intégrité de la foi catholique et de la Tradition de l’Église ».


Différents degrés d’adhésion requis

Pour le responsable des discussions avec la FSSPX, il convient de rappeler les trois points essentiels qui font d’une personne un catholique : « l’adhésion à la profession de foi, le lien des sacrements et la communion hiérarchique avec le pape ». C’est ce que contiendra la Déclaration doctrinale « qui sera soumise à l’adhésion de la FSSPX au moment opportun ».

« En ce qui concerne le Concile Vatican II, le parcours mené dans les entretiens des dernières années a conduit à une clarification importante : le Concile Vatican II ne peut être compris de façon adéquate que dans le contexte de la Tradition entière de l’Église et de son magistère constant », précise Mgr Pozzo.

« Les affirmations des vérités de foi et de doctrine catholique sûre contenues dans les documents du Concile Vatican II doivent être accueillies selon le degré d’adhésion requis », poursuit l’évêque italien, qui redit la distinction entre le dogme et certains décrets ou déclarations contenant des « directives pour l’action pastorale, des orientations et suggestions ou des exhortations de caractère pratico-pastoral », comme c’est le cas notamment de Nostra Aetate, ouvrant au dialogue avec les religions non chrétiennes.


Pas un obstacle pour la reconnaissance canonique

Celles-ci « constitueront, y compris après la reconnaissance canonique, un sujet de discussion et d’approfondissement en vue d’une plus grande précision, afin d’éviter les malentendus ou équivoques qui, nous le savons, sont répandus dans le monde ecclésial actuel ».

« Les difficultés soulevées par la FSSPX au sujet des questions de la relation Église-État et de la liberté religieuse, de la pratique de l’œcuménisme et du dialogue avec les religions non chrétiennes, de certains aspects de la réforme liturgique et de son application concrète, demeurent objet de discussion et de clarification, a ajouté Mgr Pozzo, mais ne constituent a pas un obstacle pour la reconnaissance canonique et juridique de la FSSPX ».

Il est demandé à la FSSPX « d’accepter que le magistère de l’Église soit le seul à qui est confié le dépôt de la foi pour être gardé, défendu et interprété ». « Je crois que cette clarification peut constituer un point fixe pour la FSSPX ».


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